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    Catherine Barrett has spent years exploring how thoughtful design of outdoor urban spaces can help restore the social connections that modern city living has eroded. In this conversation, she shares insights on the psychology of third places and their power to transform communities. Here, she explores the science behind our capacity for relationships and practical design principles that can turn any neighbourhood into a thriving ecosystem of belonging.

    Third places - seating by a lake

    Catherine, let’s start with the fundamentals. What exactly constitutes a ‘third place’, and why should we care about their apparent disappearance from our urban landscapes?

    “Third places are basically any space that’s not home (which is considered first place), or work — which is sadly considered second place. I’m actually thinking third places should be the first place!” she laughs. “Home and work are exclusive spaces. Not everyone can go to your home or your workplace… but third spaces are places where people naturally gather: parks, cafes, libraries, a well-designed public bench.

    “They’re vital because they facilitate informal social interactions and community cohesion. Why should we care about their disappearance? Because there are fewer opportunities for spontaneous human contact, which weakens the social glue that binds our neighbourhoods together. And it doesn’t always have to be connection with others: it could be connection with yourself. I see third space as this huge opportunity for interaction in between our home and work lives.”

    Dunbar's Number

    Let’s discuss Dunbar’s number: the theory that humans can maintain stable relationships with roughly 150 people. How does this psychological limitation clash with the reality of modern urban living, where we’re surrounded by millions yet increasingly isolated?

    “We’re wired for intimacy, for villages, for small groups of dwellings. In cities of millions, we’re exposed to huge numbers of people daily but lack the mechanisms to form meaningful connections. That’s the paradox: being physically surrounded but emotionally isolated, which is at the heart of modern loneliness.

    “The question becomes: how do you recreate thoughtful third space design to close that gap? How do you create village-like intimacy that we’ve evolutionarily adapted to? Without anywhere to meet people — whether intentionally or by accident — you live in your bubble, interacting only with immediate family, friends, or work colleagues. That’s far fewer than 150 people.”

    Exterior of La Samaritaine

    Historically, our ancestors lived in tight-knit communities of perhaps 50 to 150 people. What specific social mechanisms did these smaller communities provide that we’ve lost in our transition to urban centres of millions?

    “Proximity is crucial,” Catherine states passionately.  “The 15-minute city concept captures this — not having to drive two hours to get somewhere. When third spaces are close to where we live or work, they bring familiarity and mutual alliance. People know each other’s names, routines, needs. Natural accountability arises from repeated interactions.”

    “When you interact with neighbours in a third space daily, you’re more likely to look out for them and care for the space itself. It’s about shared rituals and passive encounters… bumping into someone at the local market or chatting on a bench. These micro-interactions build trust and belonging, which are essential for feeling part of a community. The beauty is that it’s not manufactured. It’s not a weekly club meeting… it’s a natural feeling of community belonging.”

     

    Hat with Love your Neighbour text

    Research from the University of Pennsylvania suggests that social isolation can be as harmful to health as smoking 15 cigarettes daily. How do well-designed third places serve as antidotes to this epidemic of loneliness?

    “It’s not just about socialising!” Catherine exclaims. “These spaces literally protect our health. When you strengthen social ties and reduce isolation, you’re not just feeling better, you’re actively looking out for people. If someone you see daily suddenly disappears for a week, those strengthened community connections become a safety net.”

    Community volunteers at Didcot

    You’ve mentioned the concept of ‘social accountability.’ How does the physical design of outdoor spaces influence our sense of responsibility toward our neighbours and broader community?

    (We wish you could see Catherine as she offers this answer. Her delight really comes through as she explains the ripple effects of good design.)

    “When a place looks nice and well-cared-for, you’re more likely to spend time outside,” she begins. “When you spend time outside, you’re more likely to look after it — picking up litter, tending to plants. This creates more ‘eyes on the street,’ which makes everyone feel safer and more invested.

    “It becomes a virtuous cycle. People spend more time outside, get to know each other, and develop pride in their area. I’ve seen examples of streets side by side — one well-maintained, one not. On the neglected street, people don’t even know their neighbours because they rarely venture outside. They go straight from house to transport, missing all opportunities for community connection.”

    Empty chairs beside a pond

    When we look at successful third places (whether it’s the Italian piazza tradition or Melbourne’s laneway culture) what design principles consistently emerge that encourage genuine human interaction rather than mere coexistence?

    “The key principle is allowing without forcing — creating relaxed opportunities rather than mandated interactions. I call it ‘proximity without pressure.‘ You need seating that enables people to sit close together while respecting personal space. Someone shouldn’t feel trapped if they sit down, but group interaction should be easy if desired.” She pauses, thinks.

    “Safety and accessibility are crucial: good lighting, clear sightlines, easy access. You want a place that already has people in it, because empty spaces feel unsafe. Then there’s flexibility — spaces that work for conversation, play, rest, or quiet reflection. Consider shade, views, acoustics. Can you create quieter pockets within busier areas?

    “The real cleverness is designing so it feels completely natural. The best places have had enormous thought put into them, but they don’t feel forced or contrived.”

    Street parking removed

    Many urban planners focus on efficiency and throughput, but you advocate for spaces that encourage lingering. What’s the psychological difference between spaces designed for movement versus those designed for dwelling?

    “Think about old bus stop seating — high, narrow, uncomfortable. They were designed specifically to prevent lingering. Or consider streets designed purely for cars: wide roads, narrow pavements, no amenities. You’d only use such streets to get from A to B.

    “I love seeing ‘before and after’ photos where car parking has been removed for parklets, or pavements have been planted with trees and benches underneath. But it’s not just about providing equipment; you’re creating an entire environment for lingering. It has to be somewhere people actually want to spend time, not just a bench randomly placed where no one wants to sit.”

    Barcelona pedestrianised area

    What lessons can British urban designers learn from international approaches to creating inclusive third places that serve our fundamental human need for community?

    “Barcelona (pictured here) is brilliant at showing how civic spaces can double as social forums.” Catherine’s enthusiasm is infectious here. “They prioritise people over cars, conversation over consumption. There’s a genuine feeling of dwelling and chatting, and these spaces don’t need to be grand. They just need to be emotionally intelligent rather than focused on pure efficiency.

    “Copenhagen excels at micro, small-scale interventions. A pocket park here, a small plaza there… these little changes can make enormous differences. Both cities think about the human scale first. Again, it doesn’t have to be big; it just has to work for one or two people to enjoy for half an hour. When that happens multiple times daily, you’ve positively impacted many lives.”

    People gather beside a river where access is easy

    Looking toward the future, as hybrid working reshapes how we use urban spaces, what opportunities does this present for reimagining our neighbourhoods as networks of interconnected third places?

    Catherine’s eyes light up with excitement about the possibilities ahead.

    “It’s incredibly exciting because we’re almost returning to village life! Hybrid work decentralises our routines. We’re not just rushing from home to office anymore. We have time because we’re working from home sometimes, which means spending more time in our own neighbourhoods. This creates fantastic opportunities to feel genuinely part of local community.

    “Instead of commuting to connect with work colleagues, we’re seeking connections close to home. We can design wonderful third places — parks, cafes, courtyards, streets — transforming neighbourhoods into ecosystems of belonging. I visualise more opportunities for dwelling, more people, fewer cars.

    “Rather than towns serving merely as thoroughfares to big box stores, we can create places where people want to spend time. When you’re not constantly in a car, you can actually interact with your community. We’re moving away from car-centric design toward spaces where human interaction naturally flourishes.”

    Community gathers around river access

    As our conversation draws to a close, Catherine reflects on the deeper meaning behind all of this work:

    “I think about shifting from ‘passing through’ to ‘belonging in.’ Instead of moving, heads-down, from home to transport to destination, we can create opportunities to dwell, pause, observe, reflect, engage. These actions transform you from a transient person into someone who belongs.

    “When I visualise this, I see the contrast between grey tarmac and vibrant spaces with tables, chairs, greenery, and happy people. Investment in shared spaces is investment in human connection. This doesn’t have to be grand, but human connection creates massive health impacts: physical activity, mental wellbeing, and social safety nets.

    “When you feel seen and supported, you become more accountable for your spaces too. This is about simply returning to our human roots, designing for spontaneous interaction and giving community the permission to happen naturally.”

    Birds eye view crowd

    Catherine’s final insight lingers: in our fragmented, hurried world, the answer isn’t found in grand gestures, but in thoughtful details – the careful placement of a bench, proper consideration of shade, and the simple recognition that we all need places to belong.

     

    Catherine Barratt is Managing Director of Furnitubes International Ltd. With decades of experience in outdoor furniture design and manufacturing, she champions sustainable, people-centred approaches to urban space design.